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Rosie's Railroad Adventures

Railrose

Joined: 25-06-07

Topics: 4

Replies: 56

Posted: Tue 3rd Sep 2019, 10:11am
Rosie's Railroad Adventures

Dear friends,

A while ago I wrote several entries in The News with this title. There will be more, but as dozens of stories and railroad solutions in our beloved Gauge are bubbling around in my head I cant't put them all to print. This is where, in a more modern part of society, social media come in. They partly cover what societies used to do, and ours still does. As a society we have dedicated volunteer board members doing hard work keeping us connected, all in their spare time. We all agree on a yearly membership fee and spend it to keep our society running in an open democratic process. Social media appear free and offer a great speedy connection with friends and other interested people. In the meantime they log your ways on internet, great for meeting like minds online but they also sell this information to whoever pays for it. I have two main objections to this, one is I can't control who they are selling to, the other is the system being subtly geared to create an addiction. I'm already addicted to trains, chocolate and Radio 4 and that's enough for me.

For a long time the quarterly News connected us enough, apart from, of course, meeting and playing trains together. As progress went, computers came in and we have a wonderful website with an extensive archive for all to enjoy and learn from. But there is a gap, I've watched Chris Stockdale's powerful initiative with his Minimal Gauge Group (my 'cup of tea' in our gauge) on Facebook for a while and wondered, how can I use our website to do the same kind of sharing. With friends, not with Zuckerberg’s dollar vortex. On the forum I can share pictures and comments on different topics, so I start my own. I repeat my proposal made in the ‘member to member contact’ topic for a new forum category, in the meantime I will share my thoughts, ideas and adventures here, quite miscellaneous. Not to throw a spanner in the works, but to try a new way of connection for our Society!
 

Replies To This Post

Railrose

Joined: 25-06-07

Topics: 4

Replies: 56

Posted: Tue 3rd Sep 2019, 10:19am

Right now I'm packing for the AGM, I will bring the track layout as taken to Ravensprings Park earlier, with a little more track and a different loco, my petrol mechanic 'Panter'
Right now I'm packing for the AGM, I will bring the track layout as taken to Ravensprings Park earlier, with a little more track and a different loco, my petrol mechanic 'Panter'
 

MartynRedfearn

Joined: 1-01-94

Topics: 28

Replies: 231

Posted: Tue 3rd Sep 2019, 4:37pm

Don't forget to remind John about your bell!
 

Railrose

Joined: 25-06-07

Topics: 4

Replies: 56

Posted: Tue 3rd Sep 2019, 8:53pm

Thanks, I already reminded him, he e-mailed back, it is waiting in his garage, he won't forget.

Just finished packing the trailer, Japanese puzzle again
Thanks, I already reminded him, he e-mailed back, it is waiting in his garage, he won't forget.

Just finished packing the trailer, Japanese puzzle again
 

Railrose

Joined: 25-06-07

Topics: 4

Replies: 56

Posted: Sat 14th Sep 2019, 2:52am

Bongers Spoorwegen (Bongers Railways)

On how small layouts and radiuses can be, some facts about my portable
track system:
Radius 1.80 meter, 6 feet
2 mm gauge widening
I started using this radius since 1999, first switch in this radius in 2001.
Currently numbers 13 single switches, and one double and one single
slip. Switch #16 is built for Stoomgroep West Zuiderpark with a 10
meter radius, still being tested.
Track square box steel 15 x 15 x 1.5 mm, 15 x 15 x 2 mm for switches
and level crossings
For smooth curve entry I often use a 7,5 or 15 degree 5 meter radius
transition curve.
A little greasing reduces friction resistance in curves. So far I have
built about 250 meters of portable track, still building more.

This is not the minimum radius, my railway runs through my house, from
the front door through the kitchen into the back garden, halfway is a
switch with 1,2 meter (4 feet) radius, leading into a branch line with
90 cm (3 feet) radius - with 8 mm gauge widening - into the living
room, ending next to the wood burning stove. All my stock can run
through the house into the back garden, only the bogie wagons are too
long to reach the living room.

Rolling stock:

4 wheelers wheelbase 44 cm, almost 18 inches
bogie wagons 1,80 meter, 6 feet long
Bogie centres 1,20 meter, 4 feet, wheelbase 22 cm, 9 inches
Standard stock width 40 cm, 15 3/4 inch
Wheel diameter mostly 100 mm, 4 inch, width minimal 22 mm, 7/8 inch
Petrol mechanic Panter wheelbase 504 mm, 20 inch
Motor Puch ex-moped two stroke 50 cc 3 speed, with a DAF
forward/reverse gearbox, chain driven, built 1984, overhauled 2007.
Runs fine.

Watch my video channel on Youtube, search for 'Rosie Jane Bongers'
If you want to know more about my railway, my e-mail adress is:
bongers.spoorwegen@gmail.com
 

Railrose

Joined: 25-06-07

Topics: 4

Replies: 56

Posted: Sat 14th Sep 2019, 2:58am

My layout at the 2019 AGM. In all 13 switches, total track length 110 meter

This picture is taken by Colin Edmondson

Special thanks to the City of Newport Model Engineering Society for their hospitality!
My layout at the 2019 AGM. In all 13 switches, total track length 110 meter

This picture is taken by Colin Edmondson

Special thanks to the City of Newport Model Engineering Society for their hospitality!
 

HauteSaoneFrance

Joined: 2-01-14

Topics: 42

Replies: 165

Posted: Sun 15th Sep 2019, 7:28pm

Gosh Rosie and I was take to task by non rail friends as to why I wanted a rail link from the house to the swimming pool a mere 200 m ? Well it could be used as meals on wheels?




 

Railrose

Joined: 25-06-07

Topics: 4

Replies: 56

Posted: Mon 16th Sep 2019, 8:41am

A few years ago I didn't know how to treat a sprained ankle right after it happened and couldn't walk for a week. The tram line through the house proved very useful, I could reach the toilet or the fridge without standing up.

When you turn up with a reefer wagon filled with cold drinks at the poolside they hopefully see the point!
 

Railrose

Joined: 25-06-07

Topics: 4

Replies: 56

Posted: Mon 16th Sep 2019, 5:09pm

Reunited at last! Special thanks to John Nicholson for taking it from Brighouse to the AGM,it took me about four days before I could put the bell seat back on the tram.

The point is leading into the branch line to the living room stove, it has a 120 cm (4 feet) radius. Behind the tram a wagon with 10 switches and a level crossing, waiting to be moved into storage. It is sitting on the track from the front door.
Reunited at last! Special thanks to John Nicholson for taking it from Brighouse to the AGM,it took me about four days before I could put the bell seat back on the tram.

The point is leading into the branch line to the living room stove, it has a 120 cm (4 feet) radius. Behind the tram a wagon with 10 switches and a level crossing, waiting to be moved into storage. It is sitting on the track from the front door.
 

George Coles

Joined: 1-01-70

Topics: 31

Replies: 188

Posted: Tue 17th Sep 2019, 4:11pm

Rosie, I have just re-read your article in the Summer 2014 issue of the 'NEWS' and I wondered if you could clarify something for me. Are you wagon wheels fixed to the axles (and if so, how?) or are they free to rotate on the axles, with bearings in the wheels?

Thanks
George C
4373
 

Railrose

Joined: 25-06-07

Topics: 4

Replies: 56

Posted: Tue 17th Sep 2019, 8:47pm

This question came up several times at the AGM, I'm very happy to show some light on the matter here. Thank you George for reminding me!

The wheels are fixed on axles for most of the four-wheelers. I bought wheels from stock, 100 mm diameter. Some are aquired secondhand. I've been building and trying apparent impossible constructions by combining scaling down prototype standard and narrow gauge principles with experiences juggling bits of steel.

The first three wagons were built with independent rolling wheels, bearings in the wheels. On wooden frames, fitted in the frame in a hard rubber 'sleeve'. They were cast iron worn out secondhand wheels from the SWZ club, cast iron is too soft for near commercial passenger carrying, they were worn down from 100 mm to sometimes below 90 mm, and had the flanges extensively damaged. I turned them down in the lathe to 80 mm, reprofiling them too. The first set lasted 22 years in my service, replaced them recently because the flanges had lost too much of themselves in derailings.

The next generation is made with a batch of wheels I bought from a friend at the club, and those required axles in bearing blocks. Again I went for the inside frame bar design, this time steel box 20 x 20 mm. the axle ends are turned down a few mm to fit in the wheel centre bore, and a threaded hole is drilled in both ends, M 10 or M12. Wheel back to back is 172 mm, the axle ends are a little shorter than the wheel width, a bolt is screwed in and tightens the wheel on the axle. This is not only on wagons, my battery electric tram and the Flying Dutchman are the same.

I have wagons with a 440 mm ( 17 1/2" ) both of the first and the second generation, and to my surprise there is no noticable difference in force needed to push or pull them through even the 90 cm ( 3 feet ) radius

The bogies are different, the oldest ones are leftover from a abandoned lightweight experiment by the late Willem van der Heiden, one of the Dutch pioneers and have inside bearings in the wheels too. They have a 220 mm wheelbase, I have not been able to test a fixed wheel bogie under extreme radius conditions yet.
I will post some pictures later.

 

Railrose

Joined: 25-06-07

Topics: 4

Replies: 56

Posted: Tue 17th Sep 2019, 9:10pm

To show the geometry of a 440 mm (17 1/2 inch) wheelbase in a 1800 mm (6 feet) radius curve. The truck length is 900 mm, it is the frame under a 1100 mm long wagon body. Right here the radius is only four times the wheelbase. The switch shown is #15, a 22,5 degree type fitting the slips. This switch was not at the AGM, it is part of my personal siding at the Maasoeverspoorweg. The wagon is BS #209, I had taken it apart to straighten the truck, it was bent, I had overloaded it by about 150 %. It is back in service, ran well at the AGM and wih passengers the week before.
To show the geometry of a 440 mm (17 1/2 inch) wheelbase in a 1800 mm (6 feet) radius curve. The truck length is 900 mm, it is the frame under a 1100 mm long wagon body. Right here the radius is only four times the wheelbase. The switch shown is #15, a 22,5 degree type fitting the slips. This switch was not at the AGM, it is part of my personal siding at the Maasoeverspoorweg. The wagon is BS #209, I had taken it apart to straighten the truck, it was bent, I had overloaded it by about 150 %. It is back in service, ran well at the AGM and wih passengers the week before.
 

George Coles

Joined: 1-01-70

Topics: 31

Replies: 188

Posted: Wed 18th Sep 2019, 7:58am

Thanks Rosie.

Impressive stuff. I wondered about loose wheels, because that is what my 10 1/4" gauge Tri-ang stock has. The minimum curves on that are 12ft radius, so, by comparison, nothing like as tight as yours!

George C
4373
 

Railrose

Joined: 25-06-07

Topics: 4

Replies: 56

Posted: Wed 18th Sep 2019, 9:04am

This is a 900 mm (3 feet) radius, it has 8 mm gauge widening. The wagon truck is the same dimension as the one in the previous picture, also with 440 mm (17 1/2 inch) wheelbase. Most of the stock running indoors has a 340 mm (13 1/2 inch) wheelbase. The track is 10 x 10 mm square steel on 20 x 3 mm strip sleepers and in service since 1999.
This is a 900 mm (3 feet) radius, it has 8 mm gauge widening. The wagon truck is the same dimension as the one in the previous picture, also with 440 mm (17 1/2 inch) wheelbase. Most of the stock running indoors has a 340 mm (13 1/2 inch) wheelbase. The track is 10 x 10 mm square steel on 20 x 3 mm strip sleepers and in service since 1999.
 

Railrose

Joined: 25-06-07

Topics: 4

Replies: 56

Posted: Wed 18th Sep 2019, 9:12am

Detail of wheelset in the same curve. Note the angle of the wheel on the rail. When rolling through the curve the wheels don't only roll but also skid laterally, in this skidding the rolling distance between inner and outer rail is lost. A little lubrication helps a lot.
Detail of wheelset in the same curve. Note the angle of the wheel on the rail. When rolling through the curve the wheels don't only roll but also skid laterally, in this skidding the rolling distance between inner and outer rail is lost. A little lubrication helps a lot.
 

Railrose

Joined: 25-06-07

Topics: 4

Replies: 56

Posted: Wed 18th Sep 2019, 9:14am

PS George your initial question is shown thrice, can you delete two of them?
 

George Coles

Joined: 1-01-70

Topics: 31

Replies: 188

Posted: Wed 18th Sep 2019, 10:16am

Rosie. Two now deleted. I don't know why the Forum sometimes duplicates postings. I've noticed it happen to other people's postings as well.

Thanks for pointing it out.

Since posting this, I added the post below. I just checked back and it was showing twice. I have deleted one.

George C
4373
 

George Coles

Joined: 1-01-70

Topics: 31

Replies: 188

Posted: Wed 18th Sep 2019, 10:19am

Rosie. Doesn't the lubrication affect the adhesion of the loco? Do you only lubricate the sides of the rails?

George C
4373
 

Lynne L

Joined: 10-01-18

Topics: 4

Replies: 35

Posted: Thu 19th Sep 2019, 9:00am

It was lovely meeting you at the AGM. I find the radiuses you are using quite amazing. I am using a wheelbase of 500mm with take bearings on the rake slate wagons I am building to pull behind my DeWinton.

I have included a photo of the first chasis, which took during a test assembly of the first chasis.
 

Lynne L

Joined: 10-01-18

Topics: 4

Replies: 35

Posted: Thu 19th Sep 2019, 9:01am

Oh dear, the photo did load first time round.
Oh dear, the photo did load first time round.
 

Bill

Joined: 22-05-03

Topics: 21

Replies: 49

Posted: Thu 19th Sep 2019, 9:10am

Is ths chassis built laser cut
 

George Coles

Joined: 1-01-70

Topics: 31

Replies: 188

Posted: Thu 19th Sep 2019, 10:19am

Lynne, are those 7 spoke wheels?

George C
4373
 

Railrose

Joined: 25-06-07

Topics: 4

Replies: 56

Posted: Thu 19th Sep 2019, 10:23am

Lubrication in curves affects adhesion, of course but dependent on the right amount. Found out by trial and error. Best results over the years with a sample of graphite grease I got from the Hague Tramways rail lubrication team, ran out of it but another tramway man gave me some high pressure oil, Kroon Oil (Dutch brand) 'Kompressol'. Works very well, also tried motor oil and gearbox oil (better). Kompressol is for air compressors.

In fact, any grease or oil will do, though water (rain) lubricates well too, and has a detrimental effect on adhesion, as any railroader knows.

A secondary effect of rainwater, together with the friction of the wheels it flushes the lubricant away. When the tracks dry after running on wet track, a new dab of lubricant is needed. I do lubricate the inner edge of the railhead, but it spreads to the top surface.

When to much slipping occurs I can use a little fine sand. My 'Panter' is equipped with functional sanding gear, I always carry some brake sand when playing trains. Often also used to help out on slippery station tracks, those steamers are real buggers for making tracks slippery with spilled oil.
 

RStearn

Joined: 7-09-10

Topics: 0

Replies: 17

Posted: Thu 19th Sep 2019, 8:38pm

Rosie

Seeing your three photos above:
Tue 17th Sep 2019, 9:10pm
Wed 18th Sep 2019, 9:04am
Wed 18th Sep 2019, 9:12am

brought to mind the following articles in the 7 1/4" Gauge News archive.
1988 issue043
RADIAL AXLES FOR FOUR WHEELED ROLLING STOCK by John W. Price
2005 issue111
TEN PLUS NINE PLUS ONE MORE EQUALS TWENTY by Reverend Bob Jackson

The first article is exactly as the title suggests. In the second article a 6 wheel Cleminson fitted wagon is described.

I do not know if you have seen these but thuoght they might be of interest given the tight radii you are using.

Richard
 

Railrose

Joined: 25-06-07

Topics: 4

Replies: 56

Posted: Thu 19th Sep 2019, 11:11pm

Thank you Richard! I'm planning to build a six-wheel truck, studying Henry Elsner's two-volumed history on the matter. I'm brooding on the idea ever since being pleasantly surprised by the running quality of a vintage Amsterdam six wheeler some 10 years ago. I wondered if it was already tried in our gauge, you gave me the answer. John Price was at the recent AGM, I recognized his tram on a picture in the issue 43 article. Sadly time was too short, time flies when having railroad fun..
 

Lynne L

Joined: 10-01-18

Topics: 4

Replies: 35

Posted: Fri 20th Sep 2019, 12:45am

Hi Bill,

The side frames were CNC Plasma cut from CAD drawings I drew up and supplied to the company who cut them for me.

Although my drawings were accurate, I found the cutouts for the take up bearings were anything up to 2mm under size and that everyone was different and as there were 8 side frames, I paired them up and milled them out to the correct size. The bearing retainer plates although supplied by the same company were laser cut and were a perfect fit.

Lynne
 

Lynne L

Joined: 10-01-18

Topics: 4

Replies: 35

Posted: Fri 20th Sep 2019, 12:50am

Hi George,

The wheels are 6 spoke (curved) wheels made by 17d on axles which I turned to suit my chassis design.
 

Railrose

Joined: 25-06-07

Topics: 4

Replies: 56

Posted: Mon 23rd Sep 2019, 5:30pm

Hi Lynne, I'm looking forward to see your DeWinton with a rake of wagons. Considering the wheelbase they would be able to run on my circuit. The DeWinton won't, the axle load will be to high, and probably the ponytruck can't swing out so much.
 

Railrose

Joined: 25-06-07

Topics: 4

Replies: 56

Posted: Mon 23rd Sep 2019, 5:32pm

Ten small switches, ready to be pushed into the back garden storage
Ten small switches, ready to be pushed into the back garden storage
 

Railrose

Joined: 25-06-07

Topics: 4

Replies: 56

Posted: Mon 23rd Sep 2019, 5:34pm

The small bits of track, on the same route
The small bits of track, on the same route
 

Railrose

Joined: 25-06-07

Topics: 4

Replies: 56

Posted: Mon 23rd Sep 2019, 5:40pm

All the standard lengths, -curves and transition curves in one stack in my new shed. Waiting for the next deployment on the 19/20th of october. This is all the track used in the AGM circuit
All the standard lengths, -curves and transition curves in one stack in my new shed. Waiting for the next deployment on the 19/20th of october. This is all the track used in the AGM circuit
 

HauteSaoneFrance

Joined: 2-01-14

Topics: 42

Replies: 165

Posted: Wed 25th Sep 2019, 6:52pm

It was good to meet Rosie at our Newport AGM what a fantastic achievement her railway is but the the mind boggles seeing those oh so tight curves.

Like Rosie I have questioned the established parameters re wheelbase to curve ratio and find that my 750 mm wheelbase rolling stock has no difficulty with my 9.14 m radius with only 1 mm gauge widening.

Using the Cleminson principal on rolling stock does anyone know if it would be appropriate to apply it to a wheelbase of about 2.5 m therefore allowing it to be used on rolling stock chassis of 3 m overall length?
 

Railrose

Joined: 25-06-07

Topics: 4

Replies: 56

Posted: Thu 26th Sep 2019, 12:15am

Interesting idea. At a length of 3 m overall I would go for bogies, whatever the radius. Apart from axle load the extreme wheelbase will make it very sensitive to uneven tracks. A little subsidence will cause derailing. Cleminson, or the more known Robinson 3 axle design won't help. Prototypical those designs were used on curves much smaller, scaled down to our gauge in the order of my portable track radius.
 

HauteSaoneFrance

Joined: 2-01-14

Topics: 42

Replies: 165

Posted: Fri 27th Sep 2019, 12:44pm

I guess your advice Rosie accords with most other opinions re using bogies for some of my rather long rolling stock? It is relatively simple to fabricate a 3 m long X 600 mm wide chassis using channel section and laser cut buffer beams add a couple of bought in bogies and hey presto you have a ready to run item of rolling stock. I guess the complication of making singe axle bogies and the associated control rods etc for the Cleminson set up might not be worth the effort? My railway is of course totally different to your admirable set up as it all stays in one place and weight handling is not a problem. My biggest constraint is the radius of 9.14 m and for one only (at the moment) a loop which will need a 180 degree curve with a radius of 7.84 m
 

Railrose

Joined: 25-06-07

Topics: 4

Replies: 56

Posted: Mon 4th Nov 2019, 12:52pm

Sorry for a late reply, have been rather occupied, picked up a Scamp (#72), RTR from CMD and had an event to drive on my own circuit of portable track, It was the Puch and Tomos Club Netherlands 30th anniversary meet up, my Panter has a Puch engine. In the videos on my YouTube channel those mopeds can be seen too. In the picture me shunting my Scamp. The color is RAL 4007, purple violet. I could have bought a kit and as I'm well able build it I went for RTR just to save time, time I'd rather spend on building more switches. The same goes for bogies, buying in from stock saves time, and trouble with trying constructions for yourself.

I wouldn't worry about your 180 degree loop with 7.84 m radius, on the Maasoeverspoorweg club track we run passenger trains through a 7 meter radius 180 degree curve, we have to use a little grease though to reduce the screeching noise. If you search for Maasoeverspoorweg Barendrecht you will find videos on youtube too.
Sorry for a late reply, have been rather occupied, picked up a Scamp (#72), RTR from CMD and had an event to drive on my own circuit of portable track, It was the Puch and Tomos Club Netherlands 30th anniversary meet up, my Panter has a Puch engine. In the videos on my YouTube channel those mopeds can be seen too. In the picture me shunting my Scamp. The color is RAL 4007, purple violet. I could have bought a kit and as I'm well able build it I went for RTR just to save time, time I'd rather spend on building more switches. The same goes for bogies, buying in from stock saves time, and trouble with trying constructions for yourself.

I wouldn't worry about your 180 degree loop with 7.84 m radius, on the Maasoeverspoorweg club track we run passenger trains through a 7 meter radius 180 degree curve, we have to use a little grease though to reduce the screeching noise. If you search for Maasoeverspoorweg Barendrecht you will find videos on youtube too.
 

Railrose

Joined: 25-06-07

Topics: 4

Replies: 56

Posted: Mon 4th Nov 2019, 12:58pm

I changed the buffers and added a coupling to have the Scamp compatible with my other stock, link and pin on my portable layouts and loose chain coupled on mainlines with over 5 m radius
I changed the buffers and added a coupling to have the Scamp compatible with my other stock, link and pin on my portable layouts and loose chain coupled on mainlines with over 5 m radius
 
 
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